and staying on sort of innovative ways for the problem to be solved casper going back to the chemistry of all of this is there a kind of big leap forward waiting to happen is is there the equivalent of fusion versus fission happening in in batteries that's going to kind of change the game entirely and who's doing it and how long is it going to take yeah um so unfortunately there is no nothing around the corner that's going to fundamentally change the cost or let's say the performance of batteries in the immediate term so when we talk about batteries being used in passenger evs in particular first things first is that the qualification cycle to get into those battery packs uh is very very lengthy so if it's a new technology we're looking at you know pretty much a multi-year process for those cells to be qualified and then then be designed into a pack so you know you can't just replace one cell with another in a pack you need to design the pack around the cell and so you're looking at many years before that can be deployed so one of the technologies that people are looking at other than sort of the current lithium ion that i outlined at the start of the panel would be sodium ion which moves away from the the use of things like lithium and cobalt and nickel but that's still in the r d phase and there's likely to be some some time lapse between that actually being widely used commercially and then as a superseding technology which should see kind of a significant step up in energy density terms uh which is important in terms of range and perhaps even charging speed is one of the fundamental things that people are worried about if you can charge in three minutes the same as filling up your car with petrol or diesel then lots of those range anxiety concerns go away um and you know as i said a longer range as well um would be something called solid state solid state batteries actually use very similar minerals to the ones we use today or at least the kind of market leaders in terms of developing them are using uh it's uh yeah cathode containing nickel covalent manganese and then the big change is the anode at the moment the plan would be to use lithium metal and that would replace something like natural or synthetic graphite so there's a number of different companies developing that all over the world there's actually there's many i guess the kind of uh household name that people perhaps are aware of is a company called quantumscape but there's many there's many companies developing there and that's actually still something which has a long r d road to go down before it's to be deployed or in our point opinion anyway into like widespread use in in like commercially in evs in particular where you you know cost is a very important metric and so we're looking at that being used for sort of later in the decade towards the 2030s um so yeah unfortunately there's nothing you know around the corner that's going to fundamentally change these supply chains partly because of the the long qualification requirements um you know if you think about recalls in in the auto industry and the cost associated though with those particularly with something like a battery pack which is um if you think cathode makes up fifty percent of the cost of the cell and the customer pack about forty percent of the cost of the vehicle says it would be a very costly recall so there's lots of trepidation in deploying untested technologies okay member but but nonetheless [Music] to become world leaders in in battery technology and and all of the underlying engineering and chemistry are we are we getting people excited oh yes but i think what we've started that discussion and like everything these discussions are still very much scattered uh some of our engineering schools have set up ev cells we've been in discussions with them to incentivize doing a little bit of r d uh on that we've uh they've been discussing topics so i can't say uh confidently that we've done a lot but i can definitely say confidently that we have certainly started these discussions and for one many of our leading technology uh universities have indeed set up ev sales which is a very big thing it's already a very big thing we've got courses there are dedicated courses on electric vehicles uh i can't comment too much on the course material but if there are chunks on technology have we moved that from the classroom to the lab which is perhaps what we need more of uh i'm confident that we will get there because that need is a is a rising the second level of need if there ever were to be levels of need is like we were saying the supply issue and security of supply battery technology and to what extent can we indigenize that fuel and uh there's done there's a lot of incentive also at the at the central level that or the federal level that is giving the right market signal so i'm confident that we will get there we've had a history of deep technology a history of deep science so i'm fairly confident we'll get there well that that's great and we applaud all of your optimism and and casper feel free and many times come out to see us in india to exchange um knowledge around chemistry with with all our young engineers and chemists um a huge thank you to all of our panelists to sven from norway casper from london and the wonderful mahua from new delhi thank you much thank you very much everybody and thank you to our audience thank you [Music] [Music] thank you very much for another engaging and very detailed discussion [Music] [Music] you
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